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Maybe Kingdom Circles are “just business” for Saddleback Church, CEO, Rick Warren!
It may be “just business”.. but it is doubtful that it will end up being good business for Rick Warren or the Southern Baptist churches or their missionary programs when it is all said and done! As Rick Warren points his finger at Christian brothers and sisters in the USA as not being “Christian enough” he continues combining religions.
However when Christians express outrage over Sharia being intertwined with our laws, he continues to teach Kingdon Circles, AKA the camel method, common ground, that leans Christianity toward Islam, as a path to heaven called “Chrislam” where the faithful worship Ali through Isa (Jesus of the Quran, not the Bible) and missionaries of the Southern Baptist say they are Muslim to their missions.
>>>>>LISTEN NOW<<<< Elijah Abraham on Stand Up for the Truth, with Host: Mike LeMay, Amy Spreeman<<<<< “Kingdom Circles are outside the Kingdom“
What is Chrislam?
The link of the word Chrislam in the first paragraph goes to an Islamic site that promotes it. Chrislam is an incorrect melding of religions. However ministers of the Christian faith have also responded to it by a book with the same title as you will see later on. Both will have great importance in this discussion as you will see. First … if you have read the articles here on ROW then you know of the Feb 23 article in the Orange County Register that kicked off this entre debate when Rick Warren agreed not to evangelize Muslims. It seems he does not have much of a problem turning Christianity into a story of the son of Ali! Rick Warren’s church had supposedly held a bible study at someone’s home in by his testament below …. but actually it was a HUGE conference dinner …where they pulled out the CAMEL method of teaching about Christ being “Isa of the Quran” not Christ our Savior as scripture records in the Bible!
This excerpt is from another Orange County Register article that pointed out the similarities between Christian and Islamic scriptures directly from Warren’s teachings…
King’s Way document excerpts
Published: March 9, 2012 Updated: March 10, 2012 7:01 p.m.
This document was put together in an attempt to improve our values of loving neighbor and cooperation.
We acknowledge that we may not agree on everything and some words might have different meanings. However, there are sufficient similarities to come to a common word on common ground in order to serve the common good together.
I. WHO: we believe in ONE GOD:
1. GOD IS ONE (Mark 12:29; Mohammed, 47:19)
2. GOD IS THE CREATOR (Genesis 1:1 Al Shura, 42:11)
3. GOD IS DIFFERENT FROM THE WORLD (1 Timothy 6:16; Al An’am 6:103)
4. GOD IS GOOD
a. God loves (1 John 4:16; Al Buruj 85:14)
b. God is just (1 John 1:9 Romans 3:26; Hud 11:45)
c. God’s love encompasses God’s judgment (1Peter 4:8; Al A’raf 7:156; Al Ghafir 40:7)
- WHAT: This is what we acknowledge:
TWO COMMANDMENTS:
1. LOVE OF GOD (Matthew 22:37 citing Deut. 6:5; Al Zimar. 39:45)
2. LOVE OF NEIGHBOR (Matthew 7:12; Sahih Muslim, Kitab al-Iman, Hadith no. 45)
- In addition to this we both have the 10 commandments in common
- HOW: This is what we commit to:
THREE COMMITMENTS:
1. Become friends – common ground (Matthew 5:47; Al Ma-edah 5:82)
2. Build peace – common word (Matthew 5:17, 7:24 & 11:28-30; Al Ma-edah 5:46 & Al-Hadeed 57:27)
3. Share the Blessings of God with others/Serve the world together – common good (1 John 3:17; Al Ma-edah 5:48)
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/document-344001-put-excerpts.html
Could it be that it’s just business for Rick Warren and has nothing to do with FAITH? It seems Rick does not respond or care to respond on his intentions unless he has a sympathetic interviewer. When he points the finger at Christians (you and I of course) he calls us hatful and justifies the CAMEL by saying Christians probably aren’t Christians. I say this with some anger, absolutely, because this is exactly what Rick Warren stated in an interview with Ed Stetzer :
QUESTION: Why do you think people who call themselves Christians sometimes say the most hateful things about Muslims?
WARREN: Well, some of those folks probably aren’t really Christians. 1 John 4:20 says, “If anyone says, ‘I love God,’ yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.” And 1 John 2:9 says “Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness.” I am not allowed by Jesus to hate anyone. Our culture has accepted two huge lies: The first is that if you disagree with someone’s lifestyle, you must fear them or hate them. The second is that to love someone means you agree with everything they believe or do. Both are nonsense. You don’t have to compromise convictions to be compassionate.
http://www.edstetzer.com/2012/03/rick-warren-interview-on-musli.html
My question is then .. are we to meld incorrect versions of Christianity in order to deliver compassion??
So now I have to stop here, and just say that one you finish reading this, and realize how long that the Southern Baptist have used the CAMEL method, renamed the Common Path, then renamed again the King’s Way… I’m feeling a bit angry that Rick Warren even tries to pull off the “Oh it was a one time joint scripture study deal..between a Christian and a Muslim that never left that study…that’s all” eaplanation. Well nothing could be further from the truth …they are teaching a false narrative and have done so for at least two years. This is by the statement of the Islamic Center of Southern California.
the 2011 Dinner Betweeen Saddleback Church and Southern LA Mosque
[The 2011 Dinner between Saddleback Church and Southern LA Mosque: At the dinner, Abraham Meulenberg, a Saddleback pastor in charge of interfaith outreach, and Jihad Turk, director of religious affairs at a mosque in Los Angeles, introduced King's Way as "a path to end the 1,400 years of misunderstanding between Muslims and Christians." In the Orange County Register article above Rick Warren leaves a comment :
"Rick Warren · Lake Forest, California
This was a comparison study by two guys (a Christian and a Muslim) who were studying the Bible together in a home Bible study they named "The Kings Way." It was never shared beyond that Bible study. Here's the story of the misunderstanding it caused: http://bit.ly/zuWeuX."
"two guys" huh??.....RRRRRRRight!.... so that is the story you going to stick to Rick???... that this was just a two-man study time ..... when the business of the camel method by the Southern Baptist has been known about for quite some time! How about for TWO YEARS at least! So then, you just happen to mirror the CAMEL and Common Path exactly in the "King's Way" teaching. I have to wonder who you believe Jesus to be?? You will not address this knowledge of these photos, and your satellite churches and associate pastors all teaching from the same book...and it just happen to all be teaching the same sorta thing ... going on... and on... and on!
You state you are not evangelizing Muslims but only finding common ground. Well it is time for Southern Baptist to unify their beliefs on what is common ground. The Southern Baptist Convention state that the Bible is the infallible word of God and that the writers of scripture were protected divinely from error. Then how is it that this denomination has intertwined Christianity with Islam putting forth a narrative that Jesus was the son of Allah named Isa, when Allah forbade having a son in the first place. Just wait until you see HOW they teach the CAMEL method, AKA Common Path, AKA Kingdom Circles. They are determined to teach this.... because they have changed the name of it numerous times... much like Barack Obama and the Stimulus, which was called a Bailout, which was called by any name other that the last name that people caught on to expressed dissent ... change the name, and the story method is the same.
I mean, after all, more members bring in more business. Maybe the mega church is just not big enough for Rick. Maybe they are awaiting their ROI on the funds they have poured into the promotion of these deceptive philosophies. I am not accusing but I am pushing back forcefully in his statement that Christians are not Christians statement and feel he owes an explanation to Christians all over the USA!
But now, Christian Pastor, International Speaker and Author Elijah Abraham of Living Oasis Ministries, originally from Bagdad and Muslim born ....takes Rick Warren to task over Rick's controversially erroneous teaching and why Chrislam will never succeed. Elijah stated he received "cold chills" when he read the "kingdom circles articles", as he felt as if he was reading the Quran and not Biblical teachings, because it was all Quranic leaning. He recently spoke specifically on this subject on the radio program "Stand Up For the Truth".
AUDIO: >>>>>LISTEN NOW<<<<< : Elijah Abraham on Stand Up for the Truth, with Host: Mike LeMay, Amy Spreeman in "Kingdom Circles are outside the Kingdom"
Elijah Abraham is an International Speaker and author and is one of the twenty-five expert authors of the book "Chrislam: How Missionaries are Promoting an Islamized Gospel". He is also the author of many articles on so many sites including here at Right On Weekly, Biblical Missology, AVAJ.US, and his site Center for National Security and Living Oasis Ministries, and I call him brother!
It is so heart warming, and such an inspiration to hear Elijah speak because his Jesus is my Jesus, his God my God , we are related through Christ! His knowledge of the gospel is the gospel I know to be true! His gospel is straight from scripture.
For Rick Warren to call Christians hateful, because we see associating Jesus to Isa is deceptive and because we say it is deception, is the absolute attempt at socialization of Christianity from a "governmental standpoint" by the Southern Baptist. It is not clear that there are any differences in what Rick Warren teaches and the Southern Baptist adopted CAMEL method. More importantly it is difficult for me to understand how Southern Baptist can be promoting a narrative that neither agrees with Christianity or Islam and is so far away from the stance of the infallibility of the Bible that it's confounding. Well studied and researched Christians like Elijah who have LIVED in both worlds who know very well the Southern Baptist philosophy, cannot be fooled easily as he was trained through the Baptist Seminary...
Stand Up for the Truth has also multiple articles as it relates to this discussion that is clearly not going to end ANYTIME SOON... as it has already been going on some two years .... as you will see below...and leading the way is devout Christian Elijah Abraham. His personal testimony is a story of being re-born and finding a love and compassion he had not known before, through the knowledge of the saving grace of Jesus Christ.
Elijah immediately responded to Rick Warren's punch to Christians when he 'clarified', (single quotes for meaning the opposite of: or in this case make worse), his February 23 statements here on Right On Weekly. Rick has a nack for making worse what was already bad enough as this was the day... I could not stop studying... because calling the people I know that believe Christ IS the Son of God hateful if they do not equate their Saviour to Isa, is also not exactly CHRISTIAN behavior!
Elijah goes in to detail about the Southern Baptist adopting the "camel method" of evangelism in the middle east and to Muslims it is clearly and patently false. He makes it clear, it is also a cowardly and indefensible according to Biblical scripture and just as offensive to Christians!
Now read what Southern Baptist (of which Saddleback is a member)are doing to the very name of Jesus Christ when they equate Jesus Christ with Isa of the Quran:
Missions Expert Clears Up Confusion over Muslim Outreach Tool
By Michelle A. Vu, Christian Post Reporter
February 24, 2010|5:25 pmControversy has been brewing among a group of Southern Baptists after a former Muslim-turned-seminary president criticized a Muslim outreach strategy, called the Camel, as being “deceptive.”
David Garrison, global strategist for evangelical advance at the International Mission Board – the missions arm of the Southern Baptist Convention – spoke to The Christian Post last week to set the facts straight on the Camel method. Garrison helped edit the book The Camel: How Muslims are Coming to Faith in Christ, written by Kevin Greeson. Both Garrison and Greeson were missionaries with IMB in South Asia.
The following are excerpts from the interview.
CP: Can you briefly explain what the Camel method is?
Garrison: It’s an acronym but we spell it both lowercase and all capitalized. We use it as a memory device to help us remember some of the key points in a particular passage in the Quran. The passage in the Quran that we use often in starting a conversation with Muslims is found in Surah (that’s their word for chapter) Al-Imran, which is the third chapter in the Quran. And we look at verses 42 to 55 and those are the passages that speak specifically about Isa, or Jesus. What it says about Isa we remember through this acronym.
“C” reminds us that Mary was chosen by Allah to give birth to Isa Al-Masih, or Jesus the Messiah. The “A” stands for angels announced it to her.
With each of these letters and phrases we point out to Muslims, isn’t this interesting: Do you know any other prophets who were born of a virgin? Of course they don’t. Do you know any other prophets whose birth was announced by angels? And Mary said to the angel, “How can I have a child when no man has ever touched me?” So it affirms the virgin birth. So they say, “No we don’t know any other prophet who has ever been born by a virgin or angels announcing it.”
What we are doing is lifting up Isa. We are not attacking or condemning anything in their religion, but we are simply lifting up Jesus.
The promotion of Jesus as prophet of Islam is reaching fever pitch.... it is something Islam is readily accepting and a google search will surely allow one to know just how popular this erroneous thought has become.
About the same time (2010 ) just after the a conference at Liberty University referenced in the recording, "Biblical Missiology", the group of 25 including Elijah that wrote the book Chrislam points out thus:
The Importance Of Covenant
By Douglas Pirkey On September 29, 2010 · 15 Comments · In Insider Movement, Missiological Criticism
Introduction
Common Path Alliance (C.P.A.) actively promotes, through collaborative relationships with churches, the erosion of the differences that distinguish Christianity and Islam. Their mission statement reads, “We exist to unite people, Who have been divided by religion, By seeking our common path to God.” Their chart below entitled “Abraham’s Two Sons of Mercy” is an instance of the C.P.A. mission statement. But it also is an example of the assimilation of biblical truth for the purpose of promoting an agenda sympathetic with a point of view that is theologically Islamic. This distortion is destructive for the church today, especially when it becomes part of the basis for training missionaries. Will the church be faithful to the Word of God or the trending spirit of the age? So, The following is my refutation of error in the church today. (1 John 4.4-6)
ROW: See Elijah is right... it is all "Quranic" in its leaning. EVERYTHING toward ISLAM and AWAY from Jesus Christ the very fabric and blood of the covenant, The Promise of Salvation ! Some how Jesus becomes son of Muhammad or Ali who "forbid to have a son" in the first place!! So how does one come to the truth through a lie?
About the Chart
The most interesting element of the chart entitled “Abraham’s Two Sons of Mercy” is the one that pertains centrally to its diagram but that is not included, the element of COVENANT. A biblical understanding of the Old and New Testaments presupposes a perspective foundational in scripture, that it was through his covenant that the LORD established himself in the life of his creation, and that it is by covenant that we truly comprehend ourselves, our lives, and God, the LORD. The chart implies that shared human genealogy is of ultimate importance, but it is not. The two sons, half-brothers, share blood but not the ultimate purpose for which the one is chosen, the purpose to which I turn.
Covenant with One Man
To accurately interpret the chart, its reader should begin at its top, with Abraham. We know of Abraham because the Bible says he was chosen by God:
“Now the LORD said to Abram, ‘Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house to the land that I will show you. And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed’” (Genesis 12.1-3: English Standard Version).
Previously the LORD established his covenant with Adam and all creation, Noah and his sons and their offspring, and next, through the choice of one man. Note the following:
“When Abram was ninety-nine years old the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, ‘I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless, that I may make my covenant between me and you, and may multiply you greatly.’ Then Abram fell on his face. And God said to him, ‘Behold, my covenant is with you, and you shall be the father of a multitude of nations. No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations….And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you’” (Genesis 17.1-7).
It becomes apparent, the many through whom covenant has come, that they are less important than the covenant itself, including Abraham (J. Hudson).
The Sacrifice of the Promised Son
Isaac had become a young man, and God, to test Abraham, said: “Take your son your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you” (Genesis 22.2). It is to the terminology “only son,” the foreshadowing of the founding of the New Covenant, that I draw your attention. [At this theological juncture of my paper it is appropriate to remind the reader of the chart, that the Qur’an says, “It is not befitting to Allah that he should take unto himself a son” (Maryam 35). Curiously, the Qur’anic reference I quoted is the next verse in the Qur’an from the Qur’anic reference on the chart. It is almost as if the designer of the chart intends the reader familiar with the Qur’an to notice it, but I digress.]
Abraham and Isaac reach the place of God’s instruction, build an altar, and put in place the wood. Isaac, unsuspecting, has already asked, “My father….Behold, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?” to which his father replies, “…God will provide for himself the lamb…” (Genesis 22.7,8 cf. Exodus 12.1-11). And God did and has again, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life” (John 3.16). Isaac was not sacrificed but Jesus was, for as John the Baptist said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!” (John 1.20).
http://biblicalmissiology.org/2010/09/29/the-importance-of-covenant/#
Now, Listen Again to the AUDIO: >>>>>LISTEN NOW<<<< Elijah Abraham on Stand Up for the Truth, with Host: Mike LeMay, Amy Spreeman<<<<< “Kingdom Circles are outside the Kingdom“
What do Southern Baptists believe for Heaves sake??
After all this, I decided to confirm for myself what Southern Baptists “say they believe”. In this absolute historic recorded audio, Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr., who serves as president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, speaks with former United States President, Jimmy Carter, makes it clear to me that the seminary believes the infallible word of God, through the scripture of the bible.
AUDIO: LISTEN NOW: “Thinking in Public” Monday, March 26, 2012 “The Bible Meets the Modern Age”: A Conversation with Former President Jimmy Carter. Albert Mohler discusses the position of the Southern Baptist Seminary with former US President Jimmy Carter.
The position is clear and free from any ambiguity. Well then I ask, how is it, that apparently Southern Baptist have reserved for this moment in history, to wimp out and formulate quasi renderings through a narrative that infuriate Christians as well as the theocratic Islam?? Is thre a section of Southern Baptist that have gone rogue?? I do not know the answer here but I surmise it takes a very long time to formulate a plan of missionary work… somewhere along the way it has gone awry. I am hopeful that Southern Baptists can find a way to reach out to Muslims with leadership of those such as Elijah Abraham who clearly understand both sides of doctrine being professed. Maybe they should seek the advice of those who actually experienced such a profound spiritual and life altering conversion, and upon hearing his testimony there is simply no doubt that has occurred in Elijah Abraham’s life.
Missiology: the area of practical theology that investigates the mandate, message, and mission of the Christian church, especially the nature of missionary work …
I kept trying to find a reason to uphold your version that you really don’t believe this missiology… Rick Warren… I am surely no expert, but your story is just not in agreement with what has really been going on in the Southern Baptist Church missionary arm and especially your church for that matter, dear brother. I invite you to sit down, lock the door, turn off your cell phone and read the BIBLE cover to cover as if it were a letter directly from God because it is, and make sure you find the bond of The Covenant, again.
One line of the family of man rejected the covenant (after hearing) and in order for them to be included or grafted into the covenant there can be no meshing of the truth in to an “alchemy” that soothes you! Truth cuts, is painful, it hurts but it also heals with absolute perfection after it cuts out the cancer of the lie! These people need to KNOW that truth so they can begin to OPEN their eyes and heal from being lied to, subjected to bondage and used for propaganda. I pray they become as Elijah is to me, bother, or sister, dear brother in Christ!
However, any unification of even Southern Baptists will not happen by telling more confusing stories that malign the facts. Jesus Christ, Son of God, is not Isa of the Quran. There is no doubt at one point in my life, I too, was surely hoping it was that way, but study revealed it to be simply false hope and opting for the easy way out will result in defeat, most importantly on a personal level that charges us with the defense of the faith of the very fundamentals of scripture. It does not take long for even the most new lay Christian to reach this conclusion. It is clear to me this is a politicization of faith and we do not need a socialization department of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Nor to we need a “government church” to decide that a lie will stand for truth, because it will not… and it is clear to me the Southern Baptist Church is headed for a big correction either now or later… I pray now… because later just might not be soon enough.
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